Now with the Titan software, how many fixtures can be patch on the console ?
With Titan you can patch an unlimited number of fixtures and you have a maximum of 12 DMX universes.
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You can patch Sunstrip Active as one fixture. As standard these multi-cell type fixtures now have a virtual dimmer giving you a unit master and solves the problem of fading the non-HTP attributes.
While I agree it is awkward to access each cell across attributes like this I find the key is to create palettes as building-blocks. With an on and off shared palette for each cell you can quickly create cues and chases.
I recently did this for the 25-cell Jarag panels and was more than happy with the results.
Of course that's not to say life wouldn't have been easier with pixel-mapping or improvements to the shape generator
While I agree it is awkward to access each cell across attributes like this I find the key is to create palettes as building-blocks. With an on and off shared palette for each cell you can quickly create cues and chases.
I recently did this for the 25-cell Jarag panels and was more than happy with the results.
Of course that's not to say life wouldn't have been easier with pixel-mapping or improvements to the shape generator
Olie wrote:Sorry my mistake, there is a 240 fixture limit by the number of handles.
So with Titan is it possible to unlimited patch of fixtures?
Maybe an idea to make an key combination of pages? So Page 0+1= 5, 0+2 =6, 0+3=7, 1+2=8 etc. ?
That would be great, especially when you do have a lot of Active Sunstrips or LED or so!
SL wrote:Olie wrote:Sorry my mistake, there is a 240 fixture limit by the number of handles.
So with Titan is it possible to unlimited patch of fixtures?
Maybe an idea to make an key combination of pages? So Page 0+1= 5, 0+2 =6, 0+3=7, 1+2=8 etc. ?
That would be great, especially when you do have a lot of Active Sunstrips or LED or so!
If you're running 240+ fixtures, perhaps you should consider another console which is actually built for such numbers
Mwa, when i do a midsized festival, i quickly have 200+ fixtures and dimmers. Some LED, some blinders, some moving lights.
Yeah, i know, an very easy design, but with such small grid, i used 238 handles on my expert titan desk. With titan was the whole grid in an hour time programmed, and had more then enough playbacks. So i think you can do much bigger shows then this, when you can patch more then 240 fixtures.
Yeah, i know, an very easy design, but with such small grid, i used 238 handles on my expert titan desk. With titan was the whole grid in an hour time programmed, and had more then enough playbacks. So i think you can do much bigger shows then this, when you can patch more then 240 fixtures.
Last edited by SL on 17 Dec 2009, 06:45, edited 1 time in total.
I do think there is an argument to double the number of pages, not just for fixtures but because of playbacks on presets. My user interface solution is to toggle higher pages by pressing a fixture page button twice - ie. like LCD upper/lower bank view in Classic with flashing LED to denote.
But as for your example I have to assume you end up with so many handles because you are patching multi-cell fixtures all as single cells. So the question is why?
But as for your example I have to assume you end up with so many handles because you are patching multi-cell fixtures all as single cells. So the question is why?
Ok. I guessed that would be the reason. This is actually already possible but requires editing shapefile which isn't ideal.
So it's as much improvements to shape gen as it is a need for more fixtures.
It is clear to me that a better shape gen is by far the most common request here.
This also highlights that any pixel mapping system must be able to recognise multi-cells to avoid the same problems.
So it's as much improvements to shape gen as it is a need for more fixtures.
It is clear to me that a better shape gen is by far the most common request here.
This also highlights that any pixel mapping system must be able to recognise multi-cells to avoid the same problems.
I think dealing with the third generation lighting effects (conventional, movers, LED / video) is something which the Expert doesn't handle in the most effective way. But I guess that's a hard thing to properly implement when you want to stick to your principals. The consoles which I find better for this purpose (grandMA, hog) aren't that great for show busking, at least not in my opinion. The Pearl has to find a compromise between the two and that's not a very easy task I think. I'm looking forward to seeing what new titan software will offer. Is there some info available on what features might make it into a new version?
I don't see why the two can't be combined. The Avo consoles have all the physical faders and buttons which (IMO) are crucial to the busking element. Most other things can be overcome with software.
Link to development direction: http://www.avolites.org.uk/products/Exp ... eshow.html
Link to development direction: http://www.avolites.org.uk/products/Exp ... eshow.html
niclights wrote:I don't see why the two can't be combined. The Avo consoles have all the physical faders and buttons which (IMO) are crucial to the busking element. Most other things can be overcome with software.
Link to development direction: http://www.avolites.org.uk/products/Exp ... eshow.html
Looks good! As for the question of why the two cannot be combined... the multicell LED fixtures are a good example. Take a fixture which has 3 RGB cells and thus three dimmer channels too; how would you situate that on your console? You'd have to choose between patching 3 seperate RGB fixtures or 1 fixture with all attributes (but what about the 3 dimmer channels? only 1 fader?). Patching them seperately is a good option and probably the best one, but takes up a lot of fixture handles. That means you're looking at multitple pages. When you're able to patch 8 pages full of fixtures, how would you manage that? Create fixture groups, right? I mean, switching between pages to select fixtures isn't that great / quick.
Ok so then you're looking at a console with a number of fixture groups which you select via the touchscreen and use them to program the playbacks. When in run mode, you would still use the groups to select and perhaps alter some attributes by hand with the wheels or touch screens. Now I might be mistaken, but I know of some other consoles which kind of work in the same way
But still: I don't dislike the idea and the Expert still has the advantage (I find it an advantage too) of having normal faders to control conventionals. I do question the ambition for the expert to become a console to operate larger shows with (240+ fixtures I find a large show). I mean; the Diamond and others don't exist without a purpose, so let's keep the Pearls clean and simple and not create a very comprehensive console for goals already filled in by other hardware.
What I find somewhat strange is that no manufacturer (as far as I know) has linked consoles any more. Sure, you can use dmx-in and out and stuff like that, but they don't do things like sharing pallets, correct? For the smaller rental companier (like ours) who don't have the need for a really large console, it could be very nice if for the one show a year where you do need a larger console you could just use your expert and tiger (for instance) side by side to get more faders / playbacks. But you don't want to program and operate two seperate consoles, you'd want them to act as a single console in master-slave kind of way. Program fixture groups across the two, using the shape generator for those fixtures, creating chases, etc. Now those kind of things would keep the consoles pointed towards the small / medium setups but still provide the option to go large when you need it. And for the companies doing the really big things, they'll won't by an expert anyway, not for those shows at least.
Hope you catch my drift
Yes I understand although this is all ultimately Avo's decision and so comment/speculation here is only that.
But don't forget my point about playbacks on presets being an argument for extra fixture pages. Sometimes simply to park things out of the way. A recent example of mine being chases that were actually all fired by an autoload list. I had no real need to access them but they did need to exist somewhere. Similarly you might like some extra palettes that are only used for building cues (in particular for the multi-cell fixtures). General shunting around of fixtures/palettes and perhaps wanting to have an entire page of playbacks for quick access during the running of a show are other reasons.
Of course there are some alternative possibilities such as assign/unassign to handle etc.
And for the multi-cell fixtures pixel-mapping might be key. This removes the need for silly numbers of handles while avoiding the problems navigating attributes. That is why I highlighted the importance that pixel mapping must be able to recognise the cells as if they were individual fixtures.
Regarding handling large numbers of fixtures, when you say that other consoles work in much the same way this is precisely it. So no reason not to IMO. You could always create macro shortcuts to pages too.
The D4 has the LCD's and the extra playback buttons amongst other additions which are significant hardware distinctions especially with complex rigs and so I don't agree that the Expert software needs to be limited as well. It would be up to the user how far they pushed the control surface limitations instead. This is how most of the other consoles approach the matter after all.
Console linking in theory could be reasonably easy to do given that everything works on Usb interfaces and the way Titan works with handles. In fact, looking at just the hardware side I would imagine that a Usb link from one of the motherboard ports on the master console to the first showsafe backup socket on the slave with the switch in remote position would make all those panels visible to the master console (assuming they did not have conflicting ID's which can easily be changed). Of course the software side might not be so simple....
But don't forget my point about playbacks on presets being an argument for extra fixture pages. Sometimes simply to park things out of the way. A recent example of mine being chases that were actually all fired by an autoload list. I had no real need to access them but they did need to exist somewhere. Similarly you might like some extra palettes that are only used for building cues (in particular for the multi-cell fixtures). General shunting around of fixtures/palettes and perhaps wanting to have an entire page of playbacks for quick access during the running of a show are other reasons.
Of course there are some alternative possibilities such as assign/unassign to handle etc.
And for the multi-cell fixtures pixel-mapping might be key. This removes the need for silly numbers of handles while avoiding the problems navigating attributes. That is why I highlighted the importance that pixel mapping must be able to recognise the cells as if they were individual fixtures.
Regarding handling large numbers of fixtures, when you say that other consoles work in much the same way this is precisely it. So no reason not to IMO. You could always create macro shortcuts to pages too.
The D4 has the LCD's and the extra playback buttons amongst other additions which are significant hardware distinctions especially with complex rigs and so I don't agree that the Expert software needs to be limited as well. It would be up to the user how far they pushed the control surface limitations instead. This is how most of the other consoles approach the matter after all.
Console linking in theory could be reasonably easy to do given that everything works on Usb interfaces and the way Titan works with handles. In fact, looking at just the hardware side I would imagine that a Usb link from one of the motherboard ports on the master console to the first showsafe backup socket on the slave with the switch in remote position would make all those panels visible to the master console (assuming they did not have conflicting ID's which can easily be changed). Of course the software side might not be so simple....
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