Hello!!
I've beeen trying the last days to edit the sg.dat using thw Visualizer and Simulator to see the results and still didnt got a matched circle/dimmer and/or circle/shutter shape. When I run the shape, the circle (actually an "8", not a circle in my viz/sim) the first time the shutter is open is great and so the shutter close, but when it was to open again it flickers instead of the open for the programmed time and closes again, repeating this pattern ever. In fact I just inserted a dimmer and/or shutter channel inside a previous circle shape in order to match them:
SHAPE "Shutter Circle 1" "SIN"
5 40 64 0 0 1 0 0
6 40 64 0 0 1 90 0
15 255 32 0 0 1 0 0
SEND
I just dont got what happened (Im quite new in this shape editing stuff) because I expected to open/close the shutter in a sinusoidal pattern, the flicks I just dont got, several shapes in my viz/sim are showing that.
These shapes attributes (rate, spread, ramp etc) are in the Pearl Manual? Im still a little confused abou their pratical meaning (examples, please) and possible insert values.
Another question about shapes I have is how to create a dimmer or shutter "wave" starting in the center fixture of the patch, for instance, spreading for fixtures both sides at the same rate.
And also a "group cascade" effect (dimmer/shutter waves through groups of fixtures instead of fixtures itself, lets say: wave loop through groups 5-6-7-8 only).
Thanks in advance.
Shape Editing
Moderator: Moderators
What you are doing is quite odd. Do you really want to apply a Sin pattern to a shutter attribute?
You don't say what you are using, but most fixtures have closed/open at 0/255 respectively (with some margin for error) and then reserve the inbetween values for strobe/rate/random and other effects.
By applying a Sin pattern you will be fading through all of these values.
Consider the following:
1 - A shape works from -127 to +127 and therefore, to get a full size (255) you must initially set the attribute to 50%. This is also true for dimmer shapes.
2 - Visualiser does not simulate the shutter attributes of fixtures accurately. It only makes a rough interpretation - ie. closed/strobe/open.
3 - Combining attributes as in your example is very limiting since the pattern is shared and you cannot alter speed/size/phase (spread) separately.
4 - The console remembers the order in which you select fixtures and applies phase spreads accordingly. You can achieve different sorts of effects by combining selection order with phase spread. For mirrored center-out you might use two layered shapes (left and right groups) both with the same speed and with either reversed selection order or by using [change direction] on one. They must be recorded and fired by playback to synchronise correctly.
5 - I'm not sure what you mean by 'through groups of fixtures instead of fixtures', but combining dimmer and shutter would suffer the same problems as mentioned above.
6 - You mention 'flicks'. While this might simply be due to using Sin on shutter, or Visualiser's inability to simulate correctly, it might also be a problem with editing shape files. I have had difficulties in the past, both in simulation and on the actual console. I cannot explain and noone at Avo ever has, but I suspect it occurs when you make changes to the size/speed settings in the Shape definitions. Whichever, be very careful and check everything works as expected in the actual console, especially positional shapes. While it should be, it appears this is not an exact science.
I would suggest editing a pattern that you don't use to relay between shutter closed and open - most likely -127 and +127. The obvious period would be an equal time open and closed. Then create a shape based on this pattern that is only applied to the shutter attribute. Within the simulator manually set the shutter origin to 50% and then apply this shape with size 255 and a slow speed and see if it works.
If it does then you can further experiment with multiple fixtures, phase spreads inc. different fixture order and layering with other shapes.
Circle appears as figure of 8 when it is hung incorrectly - ie. off the front of a truss instead of hung underneath. It is a physical limitation of almost all moving heads, not a fault of the software.
You don't say what you are using, but most fixtures have closed/open at 0/255 respectively (with some margin for error) and then reserve the inbetween values for strobe/rate/random and other effects.
By applying a Sin pattern you will be fading through all of these values.
Consider the following:
1 - A shape works from -127 to +127 and therefore, to get a full size (255) you must initially set the attribute to 50%. This is also true for dimmer shapes.
2 - Visualiser does not simulate the shutter attributes of fixtures accurately. It only makes a rough interpretation - ie. closed/strobe/open.
3 - Combining attributes as in your example is very limiting since the pattern is shared and you cannot alter speed/size/phase (spread) separately.
4 - The console remembers the order in which you select fixtures and applies phase spreads accordingly. You can achieve different sorts of effects by combining selection order with phase spread. For mirrored center-out you might use two layered shapes (left and right groups) both with the same speed and with either reversed selection order or by using [change direction] on one. They must be recorded and fired by playback to synchronise correctly.
5 - I'm not sure what you mean by 'through groups of fixtures instead of fixtures', but combining dimmer and shutter would suffer the same problems as mentioned above.
6 - You mention 'flicks'. While this might simply be due to using Sin on shutter, or Visualiser's inability to simulate correctly, it might also be a problem with editing shape files. I have had difficulties in the past, both in simulation and on the actual console. I cannot explain and noone at Avo ever has, but I suspect it occurs when you make changes to the size/speed settings in the Shape definitions. Whichever, be very careful and check everything works as expected in the actual console, especially positional shapes. While it should be, it appears this is not an exact science.
I would suggest editing a pattern that you don't use to relay between shutter closed and open - most likely -127 and +127. The obvious period would be an equal time open and closed. Then create a shape based on this pattern that is only applied to the shutter attribute. Within the simulator manually set the shutter origin to 50% and then apply this shape with size 255 and a slow speed and see if it works.
If it does then you can further experiment with multiple fixtures, phase spreads inc. different fixture order and layering with other shapes.
Circle appears as figure of 8 when it is hung incorrectly - ie. off the front of a truss instead of hung underneath. It is a physical limitation of almost all moving heads, not a fault of the software.
I would suggest editing a pattern that you don't use to relay between shutter closed and open - most likely -127 and +127. The obvious period would be an equal time open and closed. Then create a shape based on this pattern that is only applied to the shutter attribute.
You are perfectly correct, I forgot the sinusoidal form is quite continuous
. My idea is to sync a sinusoidal movement (circle, in the case) with a shutter open/close pattern excluding the values between full opened/full closed. This you suggest sounds great but I still dont got well what means the values of the patterns/shapes and how the board "understands" them, if you could give me an example I will appreciate a lot.
Thank you a lot for the help.
You are perfectly correct, I forgot the sinusoidal form is quite continuous
. My idea is to sync a sinusoidal movement (circle, in the case) with a shutter open/close pattern excluding the values between full opened/full closed. This you suggest sounds great but I still dont got well what means the values of the patterns/shapes and how the board "understands" them, if you could give me an example I will appreciate a lot.
Thank you a lot for the help.
The pattern values are in hexadecimal where the prefix 'FF' represents negative.
Pulse 1.1 looks like the obvious contender, assuming you want equal on/off time and open/close are at 0/255.
ff80 = -128
7f = +127
Pulse 1.1 looks like the obvious contender, assuming you want equal on/off time and open/close are at 0/255.
Code: Select all
PATTERN "PULSE1.1"
ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80
ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80
7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f
7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f
PENDff80 = -128
7f = +127
How is the console reads this code?
PATTERN "PULSE1.1"
ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80
ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80
7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f
7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f
PEND
It reads the first ff80 (1st line), so the first 7f (3rd line) and so on? My difficulty is exactly in understand the pattern structure and how it relates to the output specified in the shape. If you could help me I'll be very thankful!!
PATTERN "PULSE1.1"
ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80
ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80 ff80
7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f
7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f 7f
PEND
It reads the first ff80 (1st line), so the first 7f (3rd line) and so on? My difficulty is exactly in understand the pattern structure and how it relates to the output specified in the shape. If you could help me I'll be very thankful!!
It reads the values left to right, each line in turn. The speed set in the console (default set in Shape definition) determine how quickly, and it will loop indefinitely while the shape is running. If you change the shape direction it will use the values in reverse.
The values represent an offset from an origin. Here ff80 represents -128, so with an origin of 128 (approx 50%) this will shift actual output to 0. Half way through the pattern this snaps to +127. Add this to the origin of 128 gives 255. This assumes size is set to 255 (max). Reducing size proportionally reduces these offsets accordingly.
The values represent an offset from an origin. Here ff80 represents -128, so with an origin of 128 (approx 50%) this will shift actual output to 0. Half way through the pattern this snaps to +127. Add this to the origin of 128 gives 255. This assumes size is set to 255 (max). Reducing size proportionally reduces these offsets accordingly.
4 - The console remembers the order in which you select fixtures and applies phase spreads accordingly. You can achieve different sorts of effects by combining selection order with phase spread. For mirrored center-out you might use two layered shapes (left and right groups) both with the same speed and with either reversed selection order or by using [change direction] on one. They must be recorded and fired by playback to synchronise correctly.
If I create 5 groups of fixtures and recall them 1-2-3-4-5 or 5-3-4-1-2 etc the console will remember the order I recalled them (in the Pearl 2008)?
I tried to select the fixtures in different orders by swop/fixture handles and it worked well, but when I recall a group and hit locate, the group recalled override the previous group, instead of adding fixtures to the total number of fixtures available for programming. So how do I select groups in this case?
If I create 5 groups of fixtures and recall them 1-2-3-4-5 or 5-3-4-1-2 etc the console will remember the order I recalled them (in the Pearl 2008)?
I tried to select the fixtures in different orders by swop/fixture handles and it worked well, but when I recall a group and hit locate, the group recalled override the previous group, instead of adding fixtures to the total number of fixtures available for programming. So how do I select groups in this case?
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