On a Pearl 2004, is there a way to...

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tokm2k
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On a Pearl 2004, is there a way to...

Postby tokm2k » 28 Apr 2007, 19:49

Program a submaster to bring up dimmer channels (for example) 1, 2 & 3. While 'inhibiting' any other dimmer channels that were currently 'up' (be that via other Subs or handles) to either off, or to a lower level.

The situation is, at a outdoor gig/show I'm LD'ing this summer, the clients requested some molefays and a load of pars for the main stage's LX rig. Problem is, its all being run off a genny. In total, the gennys big enough to run all the pars at full/MLs, with the molefays bringing the total load to just over the available power when they're added to the load.. So I'm just thinking what I just asked would be nice way to make sure I don't pull to much juice from the genny's at any one time.

One idea that came to mind was the dimmer racks as LTP channels, but I gave up on this idea as it would mean after i push this moles up/pars down sub and bring it back down, i'd have to push another sub up to make the channels back at full .

Please.. no comments like, just use less lamps, don't use molefays or get a bigger genny, the answer is no.

Thanks in advance!

Tom
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niclights
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Postby niclights » 28 Apr 2007, 20:07

I guess I answered this in Blue Room at the same time as you posted here.

For benefit of this forum:

I see no way other than using LTP/mode 2, which would be horrible!

Limit via dimmer patch as a compromise if you really think it is likely power limits will be reached in normal operation.
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Postby tokm2k » 29 Apr 2007, 01:30

Hehe.

Yes, I thought hmm, perhaps stick this on a forum full of avo people rather than just BR, hit send, thought I'd check BR and found you'd replied!

Ohwel, thanks for the help, I'll have a play around and if I find anything i'll post it.

Cheers.

Tom
CoenCo
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Postby CoenCo » 30 Apr 2007, 21:27

How about creating a custom dimmer shape, that doesn't aply a sine to the dimmer, but just drops it by 50%.
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Postby (iCe) » 01 May 2007, 12:56

CoenCo wrote:How about creating a custom dimmer shape, that doesn't aply a sine to the dimmer, but just drops it by 50%.


Could you clarify that? What's the difference with patching a normal dimmer at max. 50%? That would be my solution: just patch the molefay channels @75% and you'll never cross max. power.

You might want to reconsider your power supply if you're worrying about these kinds of things. If you haven't got enough power, spend your time getting enough power, instead of thinking of workarounds. The powersupply to any rig should be 10-15% above max. consumption. If you calculate your rig so it's going to use 90-100% of the power available, you're asking for trouble (and you'll get it too). And if it's a budget kind of thing: tell the organisation they need more power or you'll have to lose some part of the show, that simple. Avoiding these problems is a lot easier than solving them :).
CoenCo
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Postby CoenCo » 01 May 2007, 13:02

Tom2k is asking for a way to inhibit other channels, while bringing up his memory with molefays.
If you create a dimmer shape that just lowers the intensity, and create a memory that has the molefeys at 100% and the shape for all other channels, you'll inhibit all channels while bringing up the molefeys. Not a nice way to do it, and getting more power is the way to go, but hey, you do what you can :)
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Postby (iCe) » 01 May 2007, 13:13

Ah right, now I see.

But is that going to work? When a certain channel is output 100% at fader 1, is raising fader 2 with a different dimmer shape going to lower that percentage? Since those channels are still begin processed as HTP I would guess the output still stays at 100% unless fader 1 is lowered.

Using LTP mode 2 would do the trick, but programming/operating that rig wouldn't do it for me and it's not entirely foolproof either (you would still be able to set everything to 100% manually). Upgrading the generator is the only correct solution here, wether you like it or not.
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Postby CoenCo » 01 May 2007, 13:19

agreed :)
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niclights
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Postby niclights » 01 May 2007, 15:04

So you're aware, the topic originated on BR and Tokm2k agreed with majority of responses along the lines of "just be careful - it's unlikely you would ever reach the power limit in reality".

Possible solutions using LTP/mode 2 or shapes are very much a compromise and the complexity would probably cause more trouble that the power one!

I must say I do disagree with iCe that you must have more power available than your total potential load (as reassuringly did majority of members on BR!) This is not always practical and usually not necessary. I would wager that the majority of large rigs out there are not supplied with enough power to run all fixtures at 100% at the same time and it would never be intended to do so.

It is common to exceed supply capability to achieve diversity with a certain reliance on operator sense when using. Ultimately trips/fuses etc. are there to protect from the idiots!

Anyhoo, it did present a potential feature (realistically for D4/Expert). I will quote my response on BR:

Auto-swop or 'ducking effect'. I think there is definitely value in a feature where one or more PB's can be defined as the effector, so to speak, and other PB's (I think safer and more versatile than fixture?) as the affected. Raising effector PB would proportionally reduce HTP values of fixtures raised on specified PB's. Examples that spring to mind are blinder and strobe masters. Further to this concept you could have a page where this were in force and one where it were not.


Thoughts?
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Postby CoenCo » 01 May 2007, 18:32

mode3 on a Diamond3 was just about that, albeit a little less advanced. Would be nice feature though. Why doesn't the pearl have a mode3 anyway?
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Postby (iCe) » 04 May 2007, 11:45

niclights wrote:I must say I do disagree with iCe that you must have more power available than your total potential load (as reassuringly did majority of members on BR!) This is not always practical and usually not necessary. I would wager that the majority of large rigs out there are not supplied with enough power to run all fixtures at 100% at the same time and it would never be intended to do so.

It is common to exceed supply capability to achieve diversity with a certain reliance on operator sense when using. Ultimately trips/fuses etc. are there to protect from the idiots!


I didn't say you should have enough power to run every fixture at 100%. I pointed out you should calculate the power supply to have about 10% more than your max. consumption. If you've got your front lighting set up in 3 colours, you're not likely to use all 3 at the same time, so I calculate the power of 2 colours at the same time.

And why should one have a bit more power than to be consumed when using a genny? Consider having a show running at 50-60% of total power and the operator decides to flash every single white fixture he has under his control (a load of molefays that is)... it's quite possible the engine of the genny isn't going to comply with that question and will just give you the finger and shut down. No trips/fuses triggered, but no power anymore either. And that's not just theory; I've experienced this a few times already and therefore always make sure the generators are large enough to supply the power I want.

I agree on the effector PB's, that would be a nice feature (though it should be used for the effect of a dark stage with blinders/strobe's, not because of a low power supply :))!
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Postby niclights » 04 May 2007, 14:28

Ah. I see! Didn't read it that way. Totally agree about genset surges - almost certainly a bigger concern than max constant load would be potential instantaneous bursts. I've experienced it too - lots of black smoke and noises to suit!
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Postby (iCe) » 05 May 2007, 09:45

niclights wrote:Ah. I see! Didn't read it that way. Totally agree about genset surges - almost certainly a bigger concern than max constant load would be potential instantaneous bursts. I've experienced it too - lots of black smoke and noises to suit!


Exactly, though not a lot of people seem to know that's possible, thinking 0-100% of total load isn't going to cause any problems... wrong! :)
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Postby iadwm » 05 May 2007, 14:03

What is this sacred Mode 3 that you wise and learned Masters of Light speak of....?
"It's the prospect of hearing something that you could never have dreamed existed"
John Peel

www.iadwm.com
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niclights
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Postby niclights » 05 May 2007, 14:33

Apparently it is indeed a proportional solo - ie. raise defined fader and (all?) other HTP values reduce. However, I am told this is rather destructive and does not restore removed output.

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