The Avolites Discussion Forum

Hi guys and girls!

I'm an Italian Pearl Classic user (I got a Pearl 2004 too) then excuse me from the begin if my english is not so good

How you can read in the title, I need to upgrade my second hand, fresh buyed old Pearl Expert (the oldest dark version, not the Pro one, with Titan 9.1, ssd and 4Gb of RAM) but seems that I am late of 2 years...

Actually no one can sell to me the upgrade kit because the product is discontinued from Avolites from 2019...
Is possible that a great piece of hardware like the Expert is now abbandoned from their parents???

What I need now is some help to how/where/at what cost I can found what I need to upgrade my old Expert into the Pro mode.

I think that I need a new motherboard (the one with the 2 ethernet ports) to install Titan v10.0 and above. I got from an old laptop the CPU then I need only a compatible motherboard.
- Maybe can I use a different motherboard from the LV-67H that fith the Expert Pro, maybe from a different Avo consolle??
- Can I use a different motherboard from some other productor??
- I know that probably I need the UPS board too (and maybe some battery)...
- Is possible to use a normal UPS with a serial/usb connection?
- Maybe can I use some hardware from a laptop??

Near that I need the Expert Touch Wing too (the original seller don't have it).
- There is only one model with DVI and Serial Port connectors?
- Or there is a model with the usb connection too??


I hope that will be some way to push a bit more longer the life of this great consolle (maybe with some no official way, if the product is discontinued)

Every suggest will be well accepted and needed


P.S.
( By the way, if someone got some spare/refurbisced part to sell, feel free to contact me! )

Unfortunately I think it might be difficult to find compatible parts to upgrade an original Pearl Expert console, perhaps if someone had an old desk it might be possible to salvage spare parts from that.

The recoveries which install the operating system and software on the console are only designed to work with specific hardware so they do not include drivers that might be required for other motherboards. Before installation, the recovery will attempt to check for a compatible motherboard type before allowing the process to continue. The UPS is a custom Avolites board which is not the same as a standard UPS, the software does not recognise or support third-party UPSs. Other components such as RAM and power supply can normally be replaced with standard parts.

Although the Expert Touch wing uses DVI and DE-9 (serial) connectors they do not carry DVI or RS-232 signals, again interface board on the back of the console is custom. The graphical connection actually connects to an internal connection on the motherboard which is another thing that would make it difficult to use a different motherboard.

Thanks for your precise replay, Gregory

About the Expert Touch Wing, what you say is that with every mainboard I need to use an extra board to connect it to the console?
I've never seen an Expert Pro directly, then I was sure (wrongly, at this point) that the Pro don't need the extra board... then I need to find this one too...
If I'm not wrong, the connection on the motherboard should use the LVDS connector on the motherboard, can you confirm it? and the DE-9 will be converted into the usb connection that is visible on the top of the board?
(I've never payed too much attention on this board before your post... in my mind the extra board was a graphic card with a riser adapter for the PCI Express connector to have the DVI connection and the DE-9 connector was simply connected to the internal serial port connector on the motherboard )

When a product is EOL, it's mean that there is no way to have some spare part in case of some hardware disaster??
Then, should I search only for used parts?
If yes, isn't there a way to use some spare part from other consoles still not at EOL themselves? Maybe the motherboard and the UPS board and batteries of a Tiger Touch (I, Pro or II) Quartz and Sapphire ? Looking them inside, they looks pretty similar and the motherboard of the TT show an LVDS connector too (like a lot of industrial motherboards)

Without some solution to those questions I will be forced to use my Pearl Expert only in Classic mode or into Titan 9.1 and I will not able to buy the Avokey or other upgrades, and my distance from the updated software versions will become too much, maybe I will considerer to been not interested to stay on Titan software when I will be able to buy a newer console...
(To be honest, it isn't all for the whorst thing, because I am used to use the Theatre Stack of the Classic mode that isn't implemented into Titan software with the 3 players (and the cuelist master) to drive the different parts of the cuelist in a manual crossfade, or I'm wrong here too?)


Or at the end, what's happen if I connect the 2 USB internal hubs to an external PC that runs Titan software? Could it work using the Expert hardware like a bigger Titan Wing??

The Pearl Expert Pro still had the wing interface card, I assume it is just that all Expert Pro consoles would have come with that fitted whereas original Experts may have required it retrofitting. It does use the LVDS on the motherboard along with USB and power however I don't know how these are connected and I really cannot recommend using anything other than the interface card which was designed for this.

With the exception of the Quartz generally all the consoles use the same mini-ITX motherboard however over time these have been updated as the older models are no longer available. Due to this even the motherboard was used in the Expert Pro is no longer available. To keep components and connectors in place and avoid them coming loose in transport a cage is fitted over the motherboard, this will be custom for each motherboard and may also be different between consoles. There may also be be different cables and adapters required depending on motherboard and console.

The split faders are making something of a comeback to the Diamond 9 consoles, it has two faders dedicated for this. On other consoles you might be able to achieve some of this by setting the cue list to Crossfade mode and creating a group master for all the fixtures in the cue list to master the HTP values. You can also assign rate and BPM masters to playbacks to provide an addition fader to control shape and effect speeds.

The USB connection on the back of the Pearl Expert was intended to be connected to a ShowSafe unit to allow control to be switched between the two if required. The ShowSafe had the same basic internals as the Expert and ran the same software and operating system. The ShowSafe became less useful when control switched over to being predominately touch screen based so they have discontinued for a long time now. The Pearl Expert software is not intended for installing on PCs and even if you were able to install it, it wouldn't be licensed so that it could run.

Hello Gregory and thanks again for your answer.

Gregory wrote:The Pearl Expert Pro still had the wing interface card, I assume it is just that all Expert Pro consoles would have come with that fitted whereas original Experts may have required it retrofitting. It does use the LVDS on the motherboard along with USB and power however I don't know how these are connected and I really cannot recommend using anything other than the interface card which was designed for this.

Yep, actually, if I'm not wrong, my only option is to found someone that could/would sold to me the complete kit with the Expert Touch Wing and the add-in card by second hand...
I suppose that there is no way to simulate it onto an extra touch screen... or there is some software emulator that I could use to do this?

Gregory wrote:With the exception of the Quartz generally all the consoles use the same mini-ITX motherboard however over time these have been updated as the older models are no longer available. Due to this even the motherboard was used in the Expert Pro is no longer available. To keep components and connectors in place and avoid them coming loose in transport a cage is fitted over the motherboard, this will be custom for each motherboard and may also be different between consoles. There may also be be different cables and adapters required depending on motherboard and console.

Honestly I've not thinked to ask how is the others console's support...
Can you tell us what consoles are currently under support and what are EOL? or is better to ask it to the commercial office?
I think to be able to build myself something that could work like the cage that you talk about, but actually the problem is the UPS board...
I'm pretty sure to could found a compatible motherboard, but the UPS board it's really hard to found... and if I cannot found a burned Expert Pro like a donor for what I need, I need to found something that could work... but I don't know what other UPS board can work into the Expert ...
I can search on it, but there are a lot of "if" on this way, and I must ask your help to learn what other UPS board could work propely...

Gregory wrote:The split faders are making something of a comeback to the Diamond 9 consoles, it has two faders dedicated for this. On other consoles you might be able to achieve some of this by setting the cue list to Crossfade mode and creating a group master for all the fixtures in the cue list to master the HTP values. You can also assign rate and BPM masters to playbacks to provide an addition fader to control shape and effect speeds.

If the Diamond 9 consoles got the 2 faders for the "theatre style" crossfade, it's mean that Titan software can be used on this way... but from what versopn of Titan? And is possible to assign this function to some normal player, or maybe on the master's faders on the Expert hardware???

And if I can figure right how it's work, in every case the difference from this function in Titan and the Theatre Stack in Pearl Classic software is an abyss... the Theatre Stack for me is the best, whit his dedicate master, for a quickable blackout or a fade to black at the end of a cue, the 2 faders for the incoming and outcoming cues and, over all, a dedicate fader for the LTP values... With this separate control, I am able to make (for example) a followspot-like movement on a path between 2 cues manually so easy like no other light control software is able to do...
I know that Titan is not intended for theatral use, but I think that like in the past the Theatre Stack was implemented later in the past, would be a great add in a Titan future development.

Gregory wrote:The USB connection on the back of the Pearl Expert was intended to be connected to a ShowSafe unit to allow control to be switched between the two if required. The ShowSafe had the same basic internals as the Expert and ran the same software and operating system. The ShowSafe became less useful when control switched over to being predominately touch screen based so they have discontinued for a long time now. The Pearl Expert software is not intended for installing on PCs and even if you were able to install it, it wouldn't be licensed so that it could run.

Is not my intention to use the USB B back connectors near the DMX ports on the Expert.
My idea was to connect 2 cables from the internal USB hubs to an external PC that run the Titan on PC software, bypassing the internal motherboard. I'm curious if the Titan on PC can read and use all the panels (that are all USB periperals) like a giant PC Wing or if there could be some problem.
If this way is playable, it's could the solution of a lot of problems, because I could use all the faders and buttons of the old Pearl Expert without the need of an hardware upgrade (ok, maybe I could lost some option about some button on the Expert Touch Wing, but some of them could be rescued with a touchscreen or some macro button...

I would suggest that you contact your local Avolites distributor in case they maybe have some of these spare parts or they might know of someone who does.

birillo_w2 wrote:I must ask your help to learn what other UPS board could work propely...

Only an Avolites UPS will work with the Titan software, no other UPS hardware is supported. The software will not function correctly without it.

birillo_w2 wrote:If the Diamond 9 consoles got the 2 faders for the "theatre style" crossfade, it's mean that Titan software can be used on this way... but from what versopn of Titan? And is possible to assign this function to some normal player, or maybe on the master's faders on the Expert hardware???

This was added in version 15.0 for the Diamond 9 and at present is only available for the two dedicated faders on that console. It is not possible to do the same thing on other consoles but this might well be something that is added in future. Even then as it stands the functionality on the Diamond is not quite the same as what there was in theatre stack mode.

birillo_w2 wrote:My idea was to connect 2 cables from the internal USB hubs to an external PC that run the Titan on PC software, bypassing the internal motherboard.

The switches next to the two USB type-B ports disconnect each of the hubs from the motherboard and connects them to whatever is plugged into the type-B port.

The main issue is even if you could get Windows to see the hardware the software probably wouldn't know what to do with it even if you could manage to start the software. There is also a possibility that a custom solution will get flagged as a fake or copy console and lock you out of the software.

Gregory wrote:I would suggest that you contact your local Avolites distributor in case they maybe have some of these spare parts or they might know of someone who does.

Yep I've done it but actually they have notting for me...

Gregory wrote:Only an Avolites UPS will work with the Titan software, no other UPS hardware is supported. The software will not function correctly without it.

I've understod it , my question is: Are all the Avolites UPS boards twins and compatible with my Pearl Expert, or I need to found some specific model?
And, if there are different models of the Avolites UPS Board, what are the models that could work inside my Pearl Expert?
And what about the battery pack? must be to be bigger for the Expert than for the other (small) consoles or the battery pack is the same for all the consoles?

Gregory wrote:This was added in version 15.0 for the Diamond 9 and at present is only available for the two dedicated faders on that console. It is not possible to do the same thing on other consoles but this might well be something that is added in future.

Yep, in this case I need to upgrade my Expert to be able to run Titan 15 and above and be ready to use it

Gregory wrote:Even then as it stands the functionality on the Diamond is not quite the same as what there was in theatre stack mode.

I've seen that, but if Avo programmers will add this option to the other consoles, let me wish that they could add the Theatre Stack option like in the Pearl classic mode

Gregory wrote:The switches next to the two USB type-B ports disconnect each of the hubs from the motherboard and connects them to whatever is plugged into the type-B port.

This is a great news! nice to learn it! it will let me make my experiments without making some mess inside the console

Gregory wrote:The main issue is even if you could get Windows to see the hardware the software probably wouldn't know what to do with it even if you could manage to start the software. There is also a possibility that a custom solution will get flagged as a fake or copy console and lock you out of the software.

I will try it faster I will can do, and I will tell you the results
At the end, in a next upgrade the programmers could add the opportunity to use the old compatible hardware in this way and have some new client for the new AvoKey

You haven't answered about the option to have a software emulator for the Expert Touch Wing on an external touchscreen like a console emulator, then I figure that there is not this option, then I need still found one Expert Touch Wing...