[Resolved] Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

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TWC
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[Resolved] Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 05 Aug 2020, 12:01

Hi. It seems that if you have a dimmer shape running in a cue list on a fader. When you manually fade it down on the fader it's not following the HTP logic I would expect and the shape fades out over the fade time of the cue rather than being directly proportional to the fader.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby PBudd » 06 Aug 2020, 17:51

Hi,

Thanks for your message. I think this is behaving as it did in the previous version. With a single memory the memory has an overall time that (depending on the playback mode) will impact how shapes fade when pulling out the fader. On a cue list all the times are specific to each cue and there aren't any overall fader timing controls.

It is possible there could be. Assuming nothing has changed, and please correct me if you think it has I think this one for the ideas and features section (https://www.avolites.com/ideas).

Thanks

Pete
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 06 Aug 2020, 19:07

I just read what I wrote again. Sorry It didn't make sense.

I was under the impression that the fader was an htp master on a cue list. Basically it's broken. The shape continues to carry on running after the fader is at the bottom on zero, the shape fades out over the fade time of he current cue even if you instantly whack the fader down.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby phb » 12 Aug 2020, 17:17

The fader for a playback sets the playback level, rather than being an HTP master per se. The playback level controls a number of things, including scaling HTP levels being output from fixture cue data, and the scaling the size of HTP shapes (when the appropriate playback option is set).

For a memory playback, the times set on the playback are fade times for the playback level, resulting in shapes and fixture HTP values fading over the given time when the fader is moved.

Cuelists do not currently have playback level fade times; the times you are setting are *cue* fade in/out times, which are used only when firing individual cues within the playback, not when setting the playback level. Cue fade times have no relationship to the playback level, which is why you're seeing this behaviour. You'll note that this isn't specific to shapes; static HTP data is also reduced by the playback level without a fade in a cuelist.

I could have sworn that we had a task in our system to implement playback fade times for cuelists and chases but I couldn't find one, so I have added it, 86435. I would recommend posting this as a suggestion on ideas and features (http://www.avolites.com/ideas) to help this gain traction.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 12 Aug 2020, 17:56

Perhaps i am not interpreting what you are saying properly.

I've been using titan since literally day one and been through every major version. I've never seen this behaviour before. Ever since day one the HTP shapes have always stayed proportional to the cue list fader.

I'm not talking about the playback level times what you set on a regular cue. I always leave he play Back times as zero on cue lists. I'm sorry if I've not understood what you have written but something seems totally screwy with the way it's currently working. Say for example the fade in/out of the current cue in the cue list it set to 60 seconds. When I bring the cue list down instantly eveything else snaps off instantly but the shape fades down over 60 seconds. If that shape is tracking into another cue that has an in/out time of 5 seconds the same shape takes 5 seconds to fade out. Like I said I've been using titan since day one and I do some pretty big musical theatre type cue list programming with 1000's of cues and I've never seen this before hence why I thought it was bug. Its always been that the cue list fader is a grandmaster for the cue list before.

I'm actually thouroughly confused now.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby phb » 12 Aug 2020, 18:18

Hmm, odd, sorry I thought you were saying that it *didn't* do that and were suggesting it should. As you say, I wouldn't expect cue fade times to affect the fading of the size of shapes as set by the playback level.

I can't seem to reproduce the behaviour you're describing. Can you post a full set of steps to reproduce this from a new show?
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 12 Aug 2020, 19:38

Apologies if I didn't express myself properly. This hrat I making my head to fuzzy

https://youtu.be/E_RCh_LHxes

https://youtu.be/pp2c5hRjsI4

Take a look at these to demonstrate what I mean. The shape seems to follow the current cue time. One has the cue time set to 15 seconds. One is set to 5 seconds.

It's just a shape merged over the top of the cue

It doesn't seem to do so it till you re-trigger the cue
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 12 Aug 2020, 19:52

Confirmed with 3 different show files.

If you still haven't moved off from the cue with the shape in it works normally. Once you re-trigger the cue it fades off when the fader is bought down. If the shape is tracked. (ie you are not on the cue the shape originates from) it fades out by whatever time the current cue you are on.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby phb » 13 Aug 2020, 00:05

The key step is that the cue has to have been refired since it was recorded - I wasn't seeing it because I wasn't killing the cuelist and refiring the cue.

I am a little surprised by this behaviour if I'm honest... however, some quick experiments with the console next to me would suggest that this has been like this since at least 12.0, perhaps earlier (I don't have anything older than 12.0 available presently).

Does this match your experience? Do you have a confirmed report of it not acting like this in a particular previous version?
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 13 Aug 2020, 09:35

I know it worked fine in 11.3. One of my quartz consoles is running 11.4 I'll run that up later on and try it on there but from memory I would say its ok on 11.4 too but I will confirm this later.

I completely skipped 12 so I can't pass comment on that and I only installed 13 to authenticate the avo key I haven't used 13 for more than an hour or so.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby niclights » 13 Aug 2020, 10:00

I've just tried a basic test using versions 10.0, 11.4, 13.0 and 14.0.44.

My test steps:

1. New show
2. Open Capture Visualiser window (to visualise)
3. Patch 1x dimmer
4. Create dimmer spread shape and record a cue list to playback fader 1 with this as cue 1
5. Record the same shape to playback fader 2 (as a memory)
6. Clear
7. Set fade out time of playback 2 and the cue in the cue list to 10s
8. Lift playback fader 1 to full and press GO
9. Lower playback fader 1 to zero quickly

= fixture continues to fade in/out gradually lowering level over 10s until at zero (ie. follows time not fader)

10. Lift playback fader 2 to full
11. Lower playback fader 2 to zero quickly

= fixture continues to fade in/out gradually lowering level over 10s until at zero (ie. follows time not fader)

In all cases the behaviour was that the shape fades out over the fade out time. I think it's reasonable to assume the versions skipped behave the same. I cannot see any change in behaviour over version or any difference in behaviour between cue lists and memories.

Apologies if I have misinterpreted. If you are seeing different behaviour between cue lists and memories (and/or across versions) perhaps you could list steps similar to above?
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 13 Aug 2020, 11:21

Nic I'll have a look at that later on and get back to you. But going by the same logic you would expect the shape in the cue list where the cue is running to also fade up when you instantly raise the fader up too.

There's definitely something fishy going on with it. Or it could be down to me having some user options set wrong.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby niclights » 13 Aug 2020, 12:21

My intention was mainly to check whether there was any regression here rather than to say whether the behaviour is correct or what the correct behaviour should be. At the moment as far as I can see it has always behaved the way it is behaving in v14.0.

Regarding user settings or options in my experience it is always a good idea to start from a new show when testing and writing/following steps to repeat as this ensures everything is set a particular way unless you explicitly change it.
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Re: Dimmer Shapes in cue list fading

Postby TWC » 13 Aug 2020, 14:43

Well I've done exactly the steps you mention in v11.4 and in beta 51. And you are absolutely correct. The shapes are fading out in both which mystifies me. I'm starting to doubt my own sanity now. I swear I've never seen this before.
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