New to Personality Builder Tips and Advice

[bjkered]

Hi New to using personality Builder.

Just discovered that the Showtec Personalities in the Fixture library are wrong for the 575 Explorer files. ( Titan d4 versions) The Personality files show 18 channels and they only have 5 Think the heads are all miss labeled

Any way reported it to Avolites ( bug Report). But in the mean time went to create them myself being through the Quick Start Manual ( only manual I can find).

All seems straight forward in building the files etc. Load them to my Titan Mobile and Patch them through etc but getting an Attritube error. So obviously some thing wrong in the personality file.

The only thing I havnt done is build a macro for Lamp on and Lamp off ( no idea as nothing in the documentation about building Macro was going to leave to another day as manully strike the lamp)

Is there any thing that all new commers do wrong or to look for in building Personality files

[icke_siegen]

What exactly does the error message say?

Attribute error is not related to missing macros (in general a personality will work without any macro). Usually it's either wrong wheel assignment, or overlapping ranges.

[icke_siegen]

But then, what do you mean with

The Personality files show 18 channels and they only have 5

As for the manual they really have 16 channels - as like as in the personality ?!?

[bjkered]

Thanks

the "5 " was an error it should have been 18. ( Typo)

However lets start again as totally baffled now by AVOLITES ( as usual ) after hunting around

1. Is there a full Manual for the Avolites Personality Builder not just a Quick Guide.
2. Just spotted the Channel offset and this is now confuseing me as I have not used it. mind you dont know if I need to or not It is used in the existing Personality which I can not get to work !!!
3.The error message I am getting from Titan Mobile with MY personality is "Error in Fixture and attritubes will not be displayed correctly.
4 Question if you build the attributes up first DO you need to then build the Modes up. The showtec only has one MODE.

[icke_siegen]

But which fixture exactly do you have problems with? Spot or Wash? Please note that there are already two versions for the Spot - without testing with the real thing, I'd say v2 is much better and more complete. And again, both have 16 channels - as like as the real fixture.

Regarding your questions:
1. No, there is no other manual than the Quick Guide. To understand what really happens I'd suggest to open the file in a text editor (Notepad++ is a good choice), to see the outcome.
2. Channel Offset: of course this is needed, to determine which DMX channel controls which attribute.
3. Can't tell without seeing your file, see below.
4. Yes, you do need the modes. At first, you define which attributes are available on the fixture. Then you build the modes which define which attribute sets are available in certain operation modes; this might go from one mode (which is the minimum) to a lot if the fixture supports this.

You might send me the file you created via email so that I can have a look and talk you through the process.

[bjkered]

Cheers for this

Just checking the file again.

I have used both the original Profiles version with real heads to no success. Had to drop the fixtures out of a show as not responding to either Avolites Profile. I still have the fixtures hence the reason for trying to get them to work.

Will run my file through the heads on Sat and if still a problem will send you a copy of the file. The heads I have are the Version 1 heads and I have the manuals for the heads.

Thanks

[bjkered]

I note there is NO mention of the Channel offset etc in the manual hence my initial early confusion on this but spotted it by studying the existing file in detail.

[niclights]

I'm sorry you've found this frustrating. We will help you get this sorted as quickly as possible.

Firstly, as Sebastian has already mentioned, the online manual for version 1 lists 16 channels as the only configuration. (The only difference between versions are the 16bit Pan/Tilt assignments.)
At a glance both files look like they match the manuals. However it is not uncommon for fixture manuals to be wrong (or just badly written, contain conflicting information, poorly translated, not translated at all, simply don't exist, etc. - please take these considerations on board when bashing your personality file author!)

The most basic (although not necessarily the easiest) way to check channel assignment is to address one fixture to 001, connect it on its own, patch a load of dimmers from 001 up and see what corresponds to what.

If you find a problem with a personality you can enter a bug report by clicking on the bug button next to the file in the personality library. See here for instructions. Just as with requests please provide as much detail as possible in order to get the file fixed. Links to manuals are probably the most useful and the better the information the faster the response, generally speaking.


Regarding Personality Builder essentially the application is really an in-house development tool that has been made available to end users. Because of this it is perhaps not yet as user friendly as it could be and does lack proper documentation. In time I'm sure it will evolve but the priority of development resources is going to be the main console software. It might even be something I can do. I will discuss. In the meantime the tool is provided to allow you to do anything you need with personalities, it just takes a little longer to understand and become familiar.

Note that the quick guide does explain dmx assignment on page 3.
A useful tip when creating personalities from scratch is dmx assignments are added and increment automatically as you add attributes to modes. I tend to create the attributes in their dmx assignment order. I then just marquee select over all the created attributes and drag/drop onto a mode giving me insta-mapping.


As Sebastian also suggests, the error is almost certainly a wheel mapping conflict. Go to the wheel mapping tab, bottom-right. Then choose the d4 tab at the top and look for anything in red which will indicate more than one thing assigned to the same wheel. If this is the case just drag and drop attributes into empty wheel slots as required.

[Onnog]

I've mentioned also that some Showtec fixtures doesn't compare with the library. For example the Showtec Starsky Pro. The controller has a 12 or 24 ch. mode. In the console i find a 10 or 24 mode only. The 10 mode personality doesn't work, sow i only can use it in 24 ch. mode.

[niclights]

This is not really relevant to this topic or this forum. As I mentioned above there are many difficulties writing personality files, not least inaccuracy or availability of online manuals and version revisions that have completely different channels. If the common factor here is the fixture manufacturer then perhaps the fault might lie there, as opposed to with Avolites? Just a thought!

If you find a fault with a personality please submit a bug report via the personality library with as much information as possible. If you want a new personality or a missing mode in an existing one please use 'request personality' form.

[bjkered]

Thank you

I have patched the head directly to dimmer channels and each channel controls the head perfectly. So the head is receiving DMX and operating correctly.

The Patch also corresponds exactly to the manual that I have with the head so that is correct.

The main thing that I notice about the Avo Personality is that it appears (if I am reading the Personality file correctly is) that
Pan/Pan Fine is channel 1 and 2 (16b bit)
Tilt/Tilt Fine is channel 3 and 4 (16 bit)

This is wrong as ( Proven in Direct Dimmer Patch and manual)
Pan is 1
Tilt is 2
Pan Fine is 3
Tilt Fine is 4

I have looked at the Showtec Manuals for both Versions of this head and the Pan and Tilt are the same channels. But BOTH AVO Personality File ( if I am reading correctlly) have them wrong.

Also in the MODE of the Avo Personality file the following are in the file and not sure what they do.
Color 1 Func
Color 2 Func
Gobo 1 Func
Gobo 2 Func

I copied the AVO file and tried to change the Channel assignments to correct and this does not seem to work for me.

In My File you are correct in that I have errors around the wheel mapping again around Pan and Tilt.

I think I am having trouble understanding how the personality tool works around the 8/16 bit assignment to Pan Tilt.

I summary this is a basic 16 channel head and I assigned a channel to each function in 8 bit ( to give 0 - 256)

eg one of several attemps ( Simple View)
Pan 8 bit channel 1
Tilt 8 bit channel 2
Pan Fine 8 bit channel 3 (even set this to 16 bit in one attempt)
Tilt Fine 8 bit channel 4 (even set this to 16 bit in one attempt)


Sorry I am not meaning to knock the authors of the Personality Files ( just the manual writer


Hope this helps will send my latest version of MY file and manual via email to niclights

At least I feel I am getting to understand and learn the Personality builder

I have 3 weeks to resolve this before a Show with 4 of these heads (along with a load of Robe) and my new Titan Mobile.

[icke_siegen]

Well, you're right regarding Pan/Tilt Hi/Lo in Spot (v1)- this should be correct in the Spot perso v2 and for the Wash.

The 8/16Bit thing is mentioned in the manual, page 3:

When you have both 16 bit and 8 bit channels performing the same functions on two different modes (most commonly Pan and Tilt) you should the set the attribute resolution to 16 bit and add it to both modes. Then for the 8 bit mode, you then select the attribute inside that mode and change the Resolution from ‘16 bit’ to ‘8 bit’ in the Attribute Pane.

So, you have to create e.g. Pan as 16 Bit (resolution 65535 steps), and then assign two DMX channels (hi byte, lo byte) in the mode.

The function thing is a little bit more difficult to explain: 'function' is a 'virtual' attribute, e.g. you might select between basic functions like 'Gobo Indexing', 'Gobo Scroll', and 'Gobo Rotate' - and the wheel beneath then let's you choose between funtions within that particular function. Hence, the FUNC channel is usually not assigned a DMX channel, but is linked to other attributes with conditions. Unfortunately, parts of the condition entries need to be done manually. Best way to understand this is to have a look at other personality files, e.g. the a.m. Explorer Spot v2:

Code: Select all

 
    <Attribute ID="Colour1Func" Name="Colour 1 Func" Description="" Group="C" Size="0">
      <Locate Locate="1" PowerOn="1" />
      <Function ID="1" Name="Fixed_Func" Display="'Fixed'" Dmx="0~0" Update="Colour1" Colour="0,0,0" />
      <Function ID="2" Name="Index_Func" Display="'Index'" Dmx="0~0" Update="Colour1" Colour="0,0,0" />
      <Function ID="3" Name="Scroll_Func" Display="'Scroll'" Dmx="0~0" Update="Colour1" Colour="0,0,0" />
      <Function ID="4" Name="Raw_Func" Display="'Raw DMX'" Dmx="0~0" Update="Colour1" Colour="0,0,0" />
    </Attribute>
    <Attribute ID="Colour1" Name="Colour 1" Description="" Group="C">
      <Locate Locate="1" PowerOn="1" />
      <Condition Name="Fixed_Func" ID="1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10" If="'Colour1Func'==1" />
      <Condition Name="Index_Func" ID="11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20" If="'Colour1Func'==2" />
      <Condition Name="Scroll_Func" ID="21,22" If="'Colour1Func'==3" />
      <Else ID="23" />
      <Function ID="1" Name="Open" Display="'Open'" Dmx="0~0" Colour="255,255,255" />
      <Function ID="2" Name="Red" Display="'Red'" Dmx="20~20" Colour="255,0,0" />

[bjkered]

Thanks Icke have not digested all you have said yet but

However the Avolites V2 file on the Showtec 575 Explorer is wrong against the manual on V2 Heads (I have downloaded the manual).

The Pan and Tilts are on 1 and 2 and the Fine is on 3 and 4 .

However ignoring the Func thing for a while ( I need to cogitate on your answer) The Mode bit still is unclear .

This is a Basic head so only has ONE MODE ( you refer to modes in the plural which is where I am getting confused. I mean confused in the sense of how to programe this head in creating a Avolites Personality. eg the Robes have several modes 8 bit/ 16 bit modes and different numbers of channel associated with each mode which is fine.

eg
All the heads say in the manual is
Ch 1 - Pan 0-256 DMX
Ch 2 - Tilt 0-256 DMX
Ch 3 - Pan Fine (16bit) 0-256 DMX
CH 4 - Tilt Fine (16Bit) 0-256 DMX

Remember there is no Choice of MODES in the Firmware on the head

It is this I have had tried several variations of 16/8 bit in the Personality file to no success

Sorry if I a coming across a thick even with a degree in electronics and worked in the computer industry programming systems, hence my frustration at what should be so simple

[niclights]

Agreed. Looking more closely it does appear that both versions should have the same 16bit Pan/Tilt mapping and that the version 1 file is incorrect.

I think there's a lot of information here that is confusing. To fix this problem open the factory version of the v1 file and click on the 'DMX channels' tab bottom right. In the Pan mapping change it from '1,2' to '1,3' and change Tilt from '3,4' to '2,4'. And save the file. Assuming that was the only fault that's all you need to do.

To elaborate, where an attribute has been set to 16bit resolution the High/Low (other common wording includes Coarse/Fine or MSB/LSB) channels are assigned as x,y where x is high and y is low.

The func attributes make use of conditional statements. Effectively an if/else type argument. They probably are the hardest thing to understand. Like many things the best way to learn is by taking an existing personality and studying it, preferably in the builder rather than the raw xml. Spend some time on this when you are not under pressure and then come back with any questions. There might be some info already here in the forum too if you have a search.

[icke_siegen]

Only a word regarding the modes: from the programming point of view, you always need to do things systematically. And regarding the mode thing, essentially there are two approaches:
(1) you can go the way like in the Classic/R20 days: each mode requires its own persoinality file. This would be in your favour, as long as each fixture has only one mode. But you'd need to have many different personality files per fixture as soon as it supports >1 modes.
(2) or: you go the way like it's implemented in Titan. Each instrument requires just one perso file, regardless how many modes it supports. The different modes are part of the very one file. This, like you see, requires that for fixtures which have only one mode, this one is implemented as a mode in der personality, even if it's not called a specific mode in the fixture's manual.

Implementing a third way - assuming some standard in case only one mode (or none at all) is implemented - would break the system, and would require heavy reprogramming almost without any benefit for the end user (only benefit: one click less when patching such instrument).