Titan Mobile/Simulator and Lightconverse

[Tallysrfr]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but how can I use LightConverse as my visualizer with Titan Mobile and Titan Simulator?
Thanks,
Bryan

[icke_siegen]

Simply connect the LC machine and the Titan machine with a network cable and make sure the network settings are correct. Then LC will pop up as Art-Net nodes in Titan->System->DMX settings. (maybe this requires a Titan softwar restart after firing LC)

There are even ways to run both on the same machine (connect your network to a dummy switch, or install MS loopback) - but in that case, LC does not pop up automatically; you then need to adjust the Art-Net settings manually.

If you could describe your setup a little more detailled, I - and others - will be happy to help.

[Tallysrfr]

Thanks for the reply. At my church, we're running Titan Mobile on a Sony Vaio Touch Screen PC with Windows 8 with 2 universes at the moment. I am running Titan Simulator On an HP ProBook 4530s. We don't have alot of room (I've tried to get a second screen in there), so if we could possibly run both on the same computer that would be awesome. Doesn't have to be LightConverse (I have Capture Polar Student Edition on my laptop), just something to do more realistic renderings because we have an odd-shaped room and want to simulate it as closely as possible.
Thanks,
Bryan

[icke_siegen]

Technically it is possible to run both, the simulator and LC or Capture, on the same computer. Since the connection between both programs is via Art-Net, you simply need to install Microsoft Loopback, or just hook up the machine to a network switch. However, there are a few limitations:
- you will soon detect that a second display is basically a MUST. Always toggling windows will be a pain - and running the simulator as well as the renderer both in half screen will be a pure nightmare
- LC and Capture both rely on proper graphics hardware (a dedicated graphic chip and memory). Albeit running them on nowadays intel onboard graphics is possible, any penny spent on a computer with a graphics chip will pay out tenfold.

That being said, why not give your software at hand a try, and then decide how to go on - in particular since you already possess a Capture licence?

- on the simulator notebook, install Capture
- start up capture, create a simple setup (for testing purposes, I'd start with just a few dimmers and a handful of movers)
- connect the network port to a switch, in order to acivate it
- start Titan Simulator
- in System->DMX settings, assign Art-Net Broadcast to DMX line 1 and 2. In Art-Net settings, make sure you use the correct network adaptor.
- now, in the Simulator, patch the fixtures you are using in your Capture setup, and address them correctly.
- you should be good to go now

Of course, there are some things which can go wrong. In particular, firewall settings can be tricky: depending from the firewall you are using, make sure Titan and Capture are both allowed to send and receive network traffic. But essentially, with the a.m. steps you should be able to make a connection between Simulator and Capture. From there on, you can improve the setup, and you can decide if any other piece of hardware would be worthwhile.

[Tallysrfr]

Thanks Icke.
I am assuming that in order to do this, we would have to run all of our fixtures in ArtNet instead of the dmx universes we have them on now?
Bryan

[niclights]

You just need to add an Art-Net node to each line used in DMX Settings.

[Gregory]

To clarify you can output the same line as DMX and Art-Net at once. You can also send Art-Net to two different destinations (e.g. different IP addresses or Art-Net universes) at once; this can be useful if you have both a media server and Visualiser on the same line.

[Tallysrfr]

Thanks. I'm still a little sketchy on the network adapter or switch. If they are both on the same machine, a loopback adapter does sound plausible. But, do I also have to create a virtual machine, load it with an OS and the visualizer software to run it all? ( I do have a second monitor, btw.
Thanks, Bryan

[niclights]

Virtual machine? You would only need this if your native OS is not Windows. Or in other words if you were on a Macbook. Normally you don't need anything - just Titan and LC. If you're not connected to a switch or router of some sort then you will need the loopback adapter.

[Gregory]

No, you do not require a virtual machine. Both pieces of software can run at the same time in the same operating system. The loopback adapter is used like a mirror so that Art-Net that would normally be being pushed out from the computer (and not seen on the computer itself) gets reflected back so the other software can see it.

Note that performance may not be all that good when running two real time applications like this, so you would need a very power computer to do this and even then it would not be recommended when running a live show.

[Tallysrfr]

Hmm... Then perhaps it would be better to use my laptop for the visualiser software. It has Windows 7, a Core i3, and 4G of ram. Would I be able to network them wirelessly, running ethernet cable from the desk to the router, then connecting wirelessly to my laptop? But running ArtNet on the network and having the desk set the ip addresses, instead of the router? Whew! Didn't think I'd be getting into computer networking when I got into lighting! But, we're heading in that direction, possibly going wireless with the fixtures, connected to an artnet/dmx hub at some point in the future. Might as well get started now.
Thanks,
Bryan

[niclights]

LC is known to be resource hungry so I would definitely put it on your most powerful machine. That said, for shows I would probably want Titan on the most powerful machine too. Titan consoles are now on i5.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do. It is probably possible to run wireless. I'll leave that for Gregory to answer. But personally I'd try and minimise complications. Can you not connect both directly to the router directly?

The IP addresses of both Titan and LC will be defined by and must match the router. For example, if router gateway is 192.168.0.1 then Titan and LC machines must be 192.168.x.y where x is 0-255 and y is 2-254 and each is unique.

Without wanting to stray off-topic, I would advise against wireless and networking for your fixtures unless you absolutely have to. DMX is simple and reliable, tried and tested. Networking adds complications. Wireless even more so.

[Tallysrfr]

I understand what you're saying. So, even with a dedicated router in the room, would you still not recommend running wireless fixtures? I thought that was one of the selling points of Titan running ArtNet, that it could even be wireless. Dmx cable, ethernet cable, either way you're running cable. It would be nice to not have cables running everywhere. So if there's a way to do it, it would be helpful. But to the topic, what I'm trying to do is look at all my options with visualization. I'm working hard on the Avolites Visualiser, to build my theater and get it working right. I would also like to explore other visualizer software and how it connects to the Titan software. I'm also exploring other things, such as time code, MIDI, etc. Just trying to get a feel for what we can do with the software and hardware we've got. And what would best suit us.
Thanks,
Bryan

[niclights]

Sorry, when I said I wasn't sure I understood what you were trying to do I was referring to the question of connecting one machine to a router wired and the other wireless.

I'm not saying you can't use wireless or Art-Net etc. I'm just pointing out that these all involve networking and devices beyond Avolites control. Generally speaking the main advantage in using Art-Net is to get multiple universes on a single cable and, most importantly, allows access to more than the four physical outputs on the console. It is also useful for devices that work natively in Art-Net (for example media servers).

Therefore in complex systems and for media this is an essential capability, but it does introduce the extra complication and potential failure of switches/routers/Art-Net to DMX converters etc. All of these need to have the correct IP's set and they are much less forgiving than DMX when connecting/disconnecting.

Wireless introduces further potential for problems just by its nature. It has limited distance and is much lower speed than wired. Usually you would only use wireless in locations where wired isn't practical, often in combination with battery powered devices (for example hand-held or scenic trucks, middle of a lake, architectural etc.)

Unless you need the big numbers of universe or weird locations I would strongly recommend keeping it simple. It's cheaper and there's much less to go wrong.

[Tallysrfr]

Okay. I understand much better now.I just figured it would be easier, since both my laptop and the desktop (a brand new Sony Vaio Touchscreen) connected to the Titan Mobile wing were both wireless, I could connect at least one of them, if not both of them, wirelessly. But, for this application, I could wire them both to a router or an ethernet switch. I actually have both. I have a Netgear RP614 v3 4-port (plus 1-in) router and a D-Link DES-1105 Ethernet Switch. I'm guessing the router would be the best choice? So, do I connect the desk to the input of the router? Do I use the ethernet port from the Mobile wing or the host computer? Then I let the router assign ip addresses? And then do I set the address in the Titan to the ip address assigned by the router? Do I have to do anything else to have all my universes show up on the visualizer?
Thanks,
Bryan